#BREXIT

serenity52

In response to Alison's T-Shirt thing, over on Facebook she has really opened up a BIG can of worms.

I applaud her for bravery. Sadly I don't think the decision of the UK can be reversed.

Whickwithy · Post edited by Whickwithy at 2017-10-26 19:59:07

I'm not sure I understand, Serenity. I was thinking that the regulation of who was allowed in the country was the whole point of Brexit. The real point, that is. The one that people cared about. I'm not saying it's the right answer. To me, the whole thing is a conundrum wrapped inside a puzzle laced with arsenic.

It's terrible to think of the fear that this induces in many people. Sometimes that seems the whole point of the exercise. Reminds me of someone that used to visit here a lot. He was way too immersed in the news and let it overcome his rationality. I've just about given up on even reading the headlines as the news, even the headlines, are way to immersed in erupting emotions, especially fear. It all seems to be an attempt by psych ops to move the masses (as reported by the Guardian). It makes one wonder if the psych ops are also responsible for the loosing of terrorists purposely. It's already happened once in the recent past under extremely suspicious circumstances. A prison was set up to bring many, many mid-east terrorists together (make sure they could all exchange business cares) and then, abruptly, they let all of the terrorists/prisoners go. Anyways, I'd much rather go with gif therapy provided by Ludux. Go Ludux!!!!!

Urban_Tribesman · Post edited by Urban_Tribesman at 2017-10-26 18:34:48

Brexit was meant to be about the UK taking back control from unelected European bureaucrats (unelected by the people that is) and wresting back the control from them, as they are profligate and corrupt. When you examine the facts, there is plenty to back this view up and there are several member states that do much better out of the Union ( the net takers) than the others ( the net givers). The U.K. Is, I believe, the 2nd largest contributor to the budget and is one of the net givers. (Massively in fact).
Instead, the whole process has been taken over with a Xenophobic ideal that we can rid ourselves of all foreigners, and to some, that is all foreigners, even the ones that are not European at all. Racial motivated hate crimes have peaked recently with people from India, Pakistan and other countries that have no connection with Europe being intimidated and told to 'Go Home!'
Stupid fuckers. Who is truly indigenous? People from nearly every country on Earth have been coming to Great Britain like forever, long, long before the EU ever existed, and both parties have always benefited from the arrangement. The NHS is one organisation that really benefits from the input of people from all over the globe and you only have to look into the proud history of the Gurkahs to fully understand how the integration of different races into the British culture can be successful.
I have been lucky enough in my life to travel to many countries and I have always returned enriched by the experiance. I have also been welcomed wherever I have been so I am all for a peaceful coexistence with other countries and races. One of Mrs UT's great, great grandparents was a French Huguenot, and she turned out alright!
Funny how these ultra right wing viewpoints have popped up in the UK and the USA at roughly the same time. Perhaps it's something in the water?

Whickwithy · Post edited by Whickwithy at 2017-10-26 20:17:35

Perhaps it is psychops. To put a name on it, Robert Mercer and Cambridge Analytica. So, media and chain emails seems like a better bet than the water. Induced xenophobia.

In case you want to read more about Mercer and his involvement in Brexit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mercer_(businessman)

He seems a true xenophobe.

By the way, Cambridge Analytica is looking the that stone around Trump's neck that could finally sink him.

Whickwithy

I did a little studying and, while you say, that the EU is unelected, that doesn't seem to jibe with what I am reading.

Urban_Tribesman

Point is WW, we don't vote for them. Junkers and Barnier have fuck all to do with us. We have decided to stop paying our fees and we want to leave the club, and they want to make an example of us to put others off doing the same (looking at you Netherlands!)
They didn't learn their lesson in the 1930's, and they have still not learned it now. A federalised Europe which just end in tears.

NovaLasing

I believe the UK has/had the best of both worlds - we're not in the Euro or the Schengen zone, so we have our own currency and control of our borders while having full access to the single EU market. But because of a spat in the Tory party we're on a path to being poorer and having less influence in the world. Very sad.

The electorate were conned and most of them don't have a clue about trade and what that means to the economy. People voted Brexit for several reasons including a reaction to falling real incomes and the effects of globalisation, ie offshoring manufacturing, on which they blame immigration. The same reasons the US elected Donald Trump. Added to that many old people are nostalgic about our imperial past and how much better life was before computers, the internet and......the EU.

Apart from control of our borders (which we largely have already) Brexit will apparently give us back control of our laws. Most of the "EU laws" are actually regulations necessary for the functioning of the single market. I ask my Brexit supporting friends which of these laws they'd like to repeal, but yet to receive an answer!

I've no love of Juncker or the European Commission. They are, like the UK Civil Service, unelected bureaucrats but they don't govern us. It's the Council of Ministers and European Partliament (who are elected) that make the decisions.

Whickwithy

Wow! This has been the most informative source on Brexit I've ever run across.

I guess I'm surprised by what you say, Nova. I thought the spat was about control of the borders. So, the Tories are stirring up a hurricane in a teacup. I guess that's no surprise. But, then again, I'll never understand the conservatives, not to mention the far right.

KatRobin

Re The photo of Alison there- there's nothing more attractive than a talented, beautiful person with brains. That's the best photo of her I've seen in a long time.
Re the reversal of Brexit- is that credible or really possible? I've heard the arguments for and against it but I still don't really know.
Seems the whole world is splintering...now Catalonia, soon to be Yorkshire!! We may as well go back to the Middle Ages and the feudal system.

NovaLasing

Whickwithy said:

I guess I'm surprised by what you say, Nova. I thought the spat was about control of the borders. So, the Tories are stirring up a hurricane in a teacup. I guess that's no surprise. But, then again, I'll never understand the conservatives, not to mention the far right.

The Tories have been deeply split on Europe for 30 years. Most of their MPs support being in the EU because of the benefits to business. But most Conservative party menbers (average age 72!) are deeply eurosceptic and want to leave the EU whatever the cost.

Can Brexit be cancelled? Yes, though it would require a hardening of public opinion against Brexit or an unforseen event. The odds of Brexit not happening are about 10:1 - about the same as they were for Trump being elected or the hung partliament in this year's general election - so there's still hope

Urban_Tribesman

So nicely put Pete. Spot on. I think the press ( them again) have a lot to answer for in this. Their constant inflammatory headlines 'Now the EU want to straighten our bananas!' and 'Eurocrats want to siphon your pension' just constantly turned people against Europe. Our Mums think that the continent is awash with immigrants who want to all come and live in the UK. While that is, in some respects, true, I have been to continental Europe half a dozen times in the last 18 months and seen nothing, nada, bugger all, that has made me concerned to go back. It's unfortunate for most of Europe that displaced people from Africa and further Eastern countries can migrate into Europe fairly easily and then spread across it as there are no borders as such, but we still have a border ( I have to show my passport to get out of and back into GB) and the channel continues to offer the last ditch protection it has since it was flooded about 6,500 years BCE and the area was called Doggerland and it was a land bridge connecting Britain directly to continental Europe (see more here) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland
Even Shakespeare wrote about it in Richard II. Prophetic words.

"This royal throne of kings, this sceptered isle, This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars, This other Eden, demi-paradise, This fortress built by Nature for herself Against infection and the hand of war, This happy breed of men, this little world, This precious stone set in the silver sea, Which serves it in the office of a wall Or as a moat defensive to a house, Against the envy of less happier lands,--This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.”

NovaLasing

I'm sure that long after we've left the EU, the Mail, Express, Sun and Telegraph will still be blaming those dastardly people in the European Commission for all our ills

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