Green Energy Debate

VisualFallacy

I'm surprised I've not got in on this thread before now... Reading through the whole thing I can add in:

1. I know the guy(s) behind Ecotricity quite well. They're in house company ethos is amazing and are definitely a 'we're not actually bothered about profits' kind of company. The MD is a proper old school hippy and he just wants there to be an alternative to the 'Big 6'. They're pretty heavily reliant on wind energy for their supply (they also buy renewable energy at wholesale and redistribute) so they're currently being screwed over by government in that respect. Think a few big sixers have slipped cameron a bob or two to get him to say that the tories are going to stop any new onshore wind farms being built.

2. I've spent a lot of time at Culham Labs (My mum works there) and have even had the good fortune to stand 'inside the donut'. I was slightly scared that I'd come out looking like a gloopy mass off grossness, but thankfully everything was shut down! It amazes me that the place has been so close to being shut down due to lack of funding etc so many times. The research into fusion energy is completely necessary (My mum doesn't deal with any of the research side of things, so this is a completely unbiased opinion!) and I can't understand how in the big energy debate this isn't highlighted more.

I know I live in a world where sustainability is pretty much everything but it amazes me how much people just assume that it's ok to just use use use without thinking about where things come from, and if there's enough to go around.

pascho

Near to where I live is part of the Torus project. One of my neighbours works on it. He says it uses a trace element in seawater and the only waste is water. They're currently at a position where they're getting out significantly more energy than is put in. They ultimately want to scale it up large enough to provide similar energy to the current power stations, however the funding from this country is sadly lacking - although I believe it is a joint European project. South Korea, China & other Far East nations are pouring billions into their own similar development. I can't understand why this literally renewable source isn't given the importance it deserves - limitless clean power seems a real possibility now.

Border_Mind

Wow, hello! Great to see a few comments on this debate.

From the purely 'capitalist' point of view Ecotricity actually costs me less than British Gas, and they are a more sound company, definitely worth a look in. I hear what you are saying VisualFallacy about the Tories screwing these kind of incentives over. To think Cameron propelled himself into the limelight as some kind of ecologist eh, just goes to show what they say about most politicians is true ;)

Sartori · Post edited by Sartori at 2014-05-10 10:04:59

Near to where I live is part of the Torus project. One of my neighbours works on it. He says it uses a trace element in seawater and the only waste is water. They're currently at a position where they're getting out significantly more energy than is put in. They ultimately want to scale it up large enough to provide similar energy to the current power stations, however the funding from this country is sadly lacking - although I believe it is a joint European project. South Korea, China & other Far East nations are pouring billions into their own similar development. I can't understand why this literally renewable source isn't given the importance it deserves - limitless clean power seems a real possibility now.

Culminating a few points from various points , I would suppose it down to costs , costs (or investment) that no one wants to make , Energy Generation is now a Capitalist function , akin to manufacturing - if the market doesn`t want to invest , then no one will . To be fair to the Government , scaling up production is a very costly operation and currently (from illustrative figures I can so barely remember that I`m on the verge of being a Daily Mail journalist) , as a country we have an income of £2000 per month and we are spending £2400 .

At the moment , I doubt the Chinese are investing anything , bribing and conducting industrial espionage to gain the knowledge without investing a penny yes , investing in research I sincerely doubt it . Casual Chinese stereotyping/truthtelling aside , we`ll see what happens there , fusion has always been a pipedream and keeping the superhot molten toast rotating via supertoast magnets is evil magic , like when Willow went apeshit bonkers in Buffy but with less ginger hotness (strong possibility that my knowledge of the detail of fusion is limited to looking around my kitchen and tv viewing habits) .

Coal is very very cheap (at the moment) ie thats why its popular , given that we have to make greenhouse limits or face fines within a period of time and undoubtedly no one wants to invest in carbon capturing technology for current stations (given their age and ever constricting carbon limits) . See Uskmouth A shutting . If no one sorts this out soon , Power Stations will be shutting and I won`t be able to make pop tarts when I want and I`ll end up having to talk my bloody family instead of watching tv . Like back in the 70s when we sat around the table playing cards instead of being able to watch Star Trek on the tv - bastardos .

The `incentives` provided end up not as `incentives` but as a scam (eg putting photoelectrics on your roof" or "come build in Newcastle" or setting up fangdangling windfarms who get paid even if electricity isn`t used) , the market abuses them for its own gain instead of using them to underpin a successful communal business enterprise . If we incentivised a scaled up Fusion program , it would be hand in hand with a private contractor who would obviously grab the profits from it , but avoid the underpinning/underwriting costs if it all goes tits up .

I`m against windfarms for the record , to me they`re a naive hippy wetdream . Electricty needs to be a consistent generation , or it plays havoc with the grid and means we might not be able to warm our pants in the microwave if it stops winding . Waves , theys wheres its at , they`re consistent and dependable bar an event like what happened in Space 1999 , god forbid nylon makes a comeback .

Personally I`m against the new Nuclear site and not from it being "Nuclear" per se , its because the Government would need to underwrite the bills and guarantee a £ per Unit generated to deliver a profit for the company come rain or shine - like the railways in effect , owned privately but subsidised by us peasants but generating profits for others . ie Richard Tax Dodging Shitlegs "Almost burnt my mum to the ground for the insurance money" Branson .

ps I worked in Power Stations for 8 years , they`re lovely and smell of bacon .

Sartori · Post edited by Sartori at 2014-05-10 09:54:36

Not proof read and deliberately bad grammared in case anyone thinks I`m some sort of thicky twat , I`m just an ordinary twat thank you .

Urban_Tribesman · Post edited by Urban_Tribesman at 2014-05-10 10:24:37

Sartori.
I have to agree with everything you said. A gent who has obviously spent some part of his education at the knee of James Tiberius Kirk has to be listened to, especially if he uses pop tarts and toast to explain that rather tricky subject of nuclear fusion.
Seriously, you are spot on with the wind farm nonsense. It is just a sop to placate the sandal wearers. They built a huge farm off the coast from us and also built half a dozen turbines inland. They frequently are not rotating. I asked once why not and was told their was not enough wind. Fair enough. Another day, it was quite windy and again the blades were not turning. On enquiring again, I was informed it was because it was too windy and I thought, 'what a f *king useless concept they are then. The sandal wearers seem to have never grasped the concept that you have to build a fossil fuel or nuclear station of equal capacity to back the wind turbines up when they are not running (otherwise we are back to conversing with family members again and playing scrabble by candlelight) and as they are very picky about what levels of wind they like, so quite often sit idle, you have to ask, what's the point?
Wave action or tidal uplift is definatley the only renewable worth considering, unless they find a way to make PVP's considerably more efficient and also find a way for the UK weather to equally be improved. While the moon is out there minding its own business and orbiting the earth, billions upon billions of tons of sea water are magically lifted up around the globe every day, for free so this is the sensible field in which to target our renewable research as, when the moon stops doing this, lack of power generation will be very low down on our agenda believe me.
Fingers crossed though. I do believe the futures bright; the futures fusion. (sorry Orange)
Off to get my Tourette's attended to.

Sparky

I'm trying to pay off my debt with Eon so I can go with Ovo energy. Had a huge row with Eon about their generation of wholesale prices and selling the stuff back to themselves for a profit.

The manager said I was listening to conspiracy theories and I told him the Big Six were on the news that day because they were being investigated for nefarious conduct. I said I trusted BBC News not to report conspiracy theories.

His attitude, having been busted, was 'like it or lump it.' He said I was tied to a contract so I just said 'see you in court.' They are a bunch of script-reading cunts with no concern for the customer.

I got out of contracts with Orange and Talk Talk just by quoting legalese at them. Eon should be a doddle.

Whickwithy

VisualFallacy said:
I can't understand how in the big energy debate this isn't highlighted more.

I think it is because, for more than thirty years, it has been the perfect unattainable source of energy.

pascho said:
They're currently at a position where they're getting out significantly more energy than is put in.

That's awesome news. I guess it is still more costly to generate that energy than is feasible, otherwise, it seems that would be huge news.

I can't think of one thing mankind could do for itself that would be more do more for the species than develop a reliable, low cost, clean electrical energy source. Other than the "clean' part, that is what made the mid-20th century such a revel for many. Fusion seems the only real solution of those that are being bandied about. The rest are stopgaps.

I don't know if many of you check the astronomy news. It seems like they are always disovering some monstrous power source of one kind or another that are not completely understood - double black holes, etc - and it makes me wonder whether some of those are just huge engineering projects by some very advanced civilization.

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