We're on the same page after all. Th aberration runs so deep that we don't even recognize it.

Low said:

The problem is wider than the Tories as I truly believe that England is fucked on a deep level, but they are the immediate danger. They're at their most dangerous and incompetent right now.

Exactly. And they would like nothing better than for decent people to say, "Ah, they're all the same, I'm not bothering to vote". UKIP and the extreme right has faded recently only because the Tories have shown that they are perfectly willing to act on their behalf. A citizenry that opts out of politics leaves the way clear for them to remove every protection from the environment, health, housing, welfare rights, wages, the poor and the discriminated against, so that their class can strip every public and common asset from the rest of us.
    

So, as I asked UT, who do you vote for? I see nothing but incompetents in many countries. There was one guy in France but he seems to have faded. It goes far beyond parties.

Oh,yeah, and would it be pro-brexit or as anti-brexit?

I'm probably as cynical about politicians as you are, WW. and I agree that the problems run far deeper than single issues like which trading block we are part of etc.  But it's not an either/or question.

We should be working on the deeper issues all the time, but when the chance comes to vote, do that too.

Because there really is a difference between being governed by a party which - for example - recognises that women's refuges should be funded from taxation, that workers have the right to self-organise, that money shouldn't determine life chances and a party that doesn't.

I have to add, w, that it is all tied together. In the U.S., which of course I know better, there are an enormous number of financially hurting people. I really don't think it is any different in the U.K. When that happens, throughout history, the overwhelming concern of the masses becomes their own welfare and all of the niceties get thrown under the bus. Fix the wealth divide and you alleviate the antipathy. That is very unlikely to happen because the wealthy (especially those that are ruthless and money obsessed because they are obsessed with the money and the influence to make sure they get more) have the influence and the power. David said the right words but I consider it very unlikely they have either the wit to see the enormity of trainwreck coming or the will and the wit to find a way to avoid it.

Interestingly, May said at the beginning that there would be no general election until 2020. She is obviously going for one in 2017 because she is advised that it is an easy win and a slam dunk to increase the Tory majority in the HofC. However, one thing we have learned in the last year is that opinion polls can get it drastically wrong and, in embarking on this course, she has taken the win for granted and opened the tiniest crack of opportunity that could yet be her downfall. I doubt it, personally, but the rising tide of criticism and plotting on social media sites is epidemic.
Fan those little embers into massive flames !

I'm going to be giving my vote to a donkey- strong and stable leadership!
Or was it an ass?