There is no political answer.  I'll say it, again.  The day no one leads and no one wants to be led, is the day that we mature enough as a species to leave the crib and stand on our own.

tattmaylor said:

Whickwithy said:

Becuase if you look at any party policy there is always some segment of the community that is less important that others and always a foreign policy than leads to other lives being seen as less important.

Not exactly.

tattmaylor said:

We live a culture

There you go...


So I
think we need to 'arm' poeples brains.

Good idea, not sure that's what you are attempting.


then the only solution is revolution and anarchy

We are not ready for anarchy (i.e. no leaders) and I'd rather evolution.

My point is that  the current political systems are driven by culture.  If you want better politics, you have to find a better system and back it up with a culture that doesn't do "us and them".  "Us and them" is not so much a political matter as it is a cultural matter.

Look for root cause, not bandaids, balling wire, and patches.

tattmaylor said:If you say that there in is no place for politics, then the only solution is revolution and anarchy (how else are you going to dismantle the system). And that will be messy and you can kiss your iphones fancy TV goodbye for a while. I don't really fancy it and to be honest I don't really think Russel Brand does.

I also think the idea of someone changing politics from within will be hard. Just look at Yanis Varoufakis. The poor guy was lucky not to get shot by the CIA and may end up jail for daring to challenge the financial system.

So I think we need to 'arm' poeples brains. We need to 'load up' on information so we have enough 'ammunition' to win a pub argument. Inspire people to have an opinon. You never know some of those poeple might find themselves in a position to change things (how ever tiny). People need to believe they can make a difference. The opinion i get these days is 'whats the point, everything is corrupt'. The rulers want your apathy.

We could make every tabloid newspaper bandkrupt over night. Peace of piss. Just stop buying it. Everyone is looking for grand solutions. There isn't one. You have to do one person at a time.

Look at the Romans and Christianity. A tiny religion that struck a cord and changed the western civilization as we know it. Okay it gt corrupted pretty quicky but the point is it could maybe just be done again.


Changing politics and corrupt organisations from the inside may be hard, but getting millions upon millions to stop buying into them is even harder. Like you said, people want their iPhones, TV's and instant media culture. They can't live without it. However, that's exactly what's fuelling this whole thing even further. Maybe the solution is to utilise our platforms on social media and through the internet, but that hasn't happened yet. We're all still turning on eachother. Which is totally fine for those at the top positions of power.

"All rebellions are ordinary and an ultimate bore. They are copied out of the same pattern, one much like another. The driving force is adrenalin addiction and the desire to gain personal power. All rebels are closet aristocrats" Leto

this is slow genocide folks...look  up the stats 

Let me try, again...

One of my favorite comments, it might have been Churchill, is that the difference between capitalism and communism (use the favorite bane of your choice - democracy and dictatorship do just as well) is that capitalism is the system is which one set of people take advantage of another set of people.  Communism is just the opposite.

The key word here is people.  Governments, corporations, what-have-you are made up of people.  There no need to look any further than that for some cabal or evil society.  It is people with influence that take advantage of the influence to better their own situation.  Culture, or societal pressures (or, god help me, one of these days, just pure rational thinking and intellect) are the only operations that can throttle that desire for self-gratification at the expense of others.  Right now, the hero of the past has been replaced with the wealthy by many.  If your rich you must be special.  When and if honor, integrity, responsibility, respect, dignity, courtesy, grace, joy and the celebration of life in all of its aspects return in full force and is adopted by all the constituents of society, then and only then, will we be released from all of the ills of mankind.  Society and what is acceptable behaviour is the problem.  It's not the root cause but it is getting close.

Here's a very specific example of how tricky this can all be.  Take arthritis for instance.  In some very few cases it is identified as a very specific germ that mucks things up.  But, in general, is caused by degeneration of the joints.  The medical community loves to call arthritis a disease and throw words around like "degenerative".  But, the plain fact is it's just a human being not looking closely enough at what is really happening.  As you age, your bones get hard.  Everybody knows that, right?  But, it's a little more complicated than that.  As they become rigid, the flexibility that one is used to is gone.  For a whole lifetime, your joints and bones flexed.  When you were really young, they were like rubber.  But, until you reach a certain age, somewhere past middle age, they have some give in them.  Once you reach that special age, sometimes called "old", they really become rock-hard.  Your use of the joints and bones, etc changes, but your habits don't.  You use your joints in a way that deteriorates them.  You'll do something and say, "damn, that hurts!" and think nothing more about it, rather than realize that this is a warning.  Your joints just don't operate the way they used to and, if you don't learn to work with the joints, you will end up having joints that degenerate, another way of saying deteriorate.  Now, do you think that there is some great cabal of medical practitioners that got together to say, "Geez, let's come up with something that so confuses the issue concerning arthritis that no one will have a clue that it's really just a matter of using your joints correctly to adjust for age and flexibility."  I don't think so.  The sad part is (yes, Roger Waters, you were right) that these Doctors spent years in school nodding their heads and trying to pass exams and learning not to think.  I could go on for days, believe me.  But, the point is, it's no cabal or, at least, there is no need to identify a evil cabal to understand our ills.  It's just the following herd going to school and learning to nod their heads.  Sometimes, it's nodding their heads to explanations that sound really great because they make one feel, "in the know".  Best thing?  Throw it all out and start over.

Oh, and by the way, if you want a government that operates pretty well, try the Social Democracy of the Nordic nations.  But, don't get your hopes up.  Send that to the U.S. and I assure you, we'd be able to fuck it up for the advantage of the few because of the societal mechanics.  Governments, corporations, religions, etc just reflect the society within which they operate.  Of course, it is sort of like a feedback loop where each influences the other but in the end, are all just a reflection of a massive inertia of the given society.

Yeah, I like the idea of the internet breaking that feedback loop but I think it has a long way to go.  How does the best and most cogent thought bubble to the top across all humanity.  At least, the potential now exists.  But, you won't catch me getting too attached to any "news source" as answering anything at all.

Well, that link doesn't go where you intended.  But, I think I get the picture.  Take them to task all one wants, it's not going to change much unless there is a grassroots change in beliefs about what's important and what's not.