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It's a shameful term, on par with "straight-acting gay," which those within the gay community use to discriminate against each other (cf. "No Femmes or Fatties"). It's also a lie. As we all know, gender traits such as femininity and masculinity exist along a continuum and are not determined by whether or not a woman wears lipstick or a man struts like a cowboy. Straight people should be as offended as gay people (also should be) by such labels. Nevertheless...
Post edited by iuventus at 2016-07-22 22:50:43If I were dead, could I do this? -
Don't get me started on this Iuv! It's great to see that here in the UK, at least, there is a big backlash against the wearing of heels. ( I'm talking women, but this could equally apply to a Trans guy, although (s)he probably doesn't " have to" wear them all day every day at work as some women feel compelled to do. I only ever wear a pair of heels on those uber-rare occasions when a social occasion decrees, so that's about 0.000001 % of the time! I can't stand the bloody things.ill let someone else continue with the whole feminist rant on this ( not that there are enough ladies present at the mo :(.
As for make up? Whale blubber on my lips? No thanks. Some young women wear so much make up these days they become a parody of themselves. I just don't get it.
For someone like Alison, in the public eye, I don't envy her dilemma. I bet she hates the heels as much as the rest of us ( sorry if I'm wrong Al!). But having been so rudely described as " diminutive" when off stage, she probably feels she needs them to enhance her stage presence. Florence, being so tall on the other hand, can get away with prancing around barefoot. Alison is obviously a beautiful woman with or without make up, but I gotta admit, if I were photographed and adored by so many, I'd want to slap a bit on to enhance myself further lol. And taking it off when in private helps her to retain some privacy I guess.
Funny, if I went out with heels and heavy make up on, no one would recognise me!
As for " lipstick lesbianism"- an invention of the porn industry and another sad male fantasy. Catherine and I see each other in every worst state of sleeplessness, bad hair etc ( as I'm sure Alison and Lisa do), and we have a very nice time, thank you!!! -
KatRobin said:
As for " lipstick lesbianism"- an invention of the porn industry and another sad male fantasy.
You can't blame everything on straight men. Boring! The term originated within the gay community. I don't know that I've ever heard it used by the mainstream or heterosexual media. That, however, would be more tolerable to me than the way the gay community uses such terms to divide itself.
If I were dead, could I do this? -
iuventus said:
Straight people should be as offended as gay people (also should be) by such labels
Completely agree. Some "journalist" trying to figure out how to make a buck by coining a new term and getting a few clicks. It's a sad state we're in. <<< I think that's from a Leon Russell song. "Stranger in a strange land"?But, I think I am more offended by how terrible this site it. Sorry, it's just, once again, I am running into how much I miss the way the old site worked.God, how I hate this site. This response is to what Kat said below because this stupid site is being stupid, once again, and won't let me put my response below the comment!Anyways, when I came back from 3 years in the Navy, where I lived in this distant realm where civilization hardly existed, I was so surprised to find women with all of this gunk on their faces. Of course, one learns to get used to it but, still, gunk!
KatRobin said:Some young women wear so much make up these days they become a parody of themselves.
Post edited by Whickwithy at 2016-07-23 10:09:16The Sentient Struggle For Transformation
https://www.amazon.com/Sentient-Struggle-Transformation-Whickwithy/dp/1734822147/ -
Whickwithy said:
Completely agree. Some "journalist" trying to figure out how to make a buck by coining a new term and getting a few clicks.
Except that this was some time before anyone was clicking anything. I remember it being somewhat new in the late 80s. It was in all the literature of the time, and all the hot, young college lesbians were doing it up with the most striking shades of red. I'm speaking of the term, not the reality. Hollywood lesbians were lipsticking long before then even (e.g., Louise Brooks, Marilyn Monroe).
I think you're missing my point, @KatRobin, and you're devaluing women (edit: and men) who like to be "pretty" and painted. High heels are a women's issue. I've NEVER heard a man say, "Butterfeet! I mean, if she'd only wear heels." At some point, women have to take responsibility for their choices, and you have to let them present themselves as they wish. And I think in the mainstream this is the case (discount the pockets of culture in which women live to please their men; Amanda Lepore; and any of Donald Trumps's wives). Plus, you can't excuse Alison, or anyone else, simply because you like her. Well, I guess you can, but it weakens your argument.
The travesty is that--WITHIN THE GAY/LESBIAN/QUEER COMMUNITY--these terms are used to typify and label something that doesn't exist other than on the extreme fringe of the spectrum; they discriminate based on the most superficial aspects of a human being. The phrases "Lipstick Lesbian" and "Straight-acting Gay" presume that the standards are the butch lesbian and effeminate gay man; hence, they reinforce stereotypes and perpetuate discrimination (from within and from without). The lipstick lesbians are "hot"; the straight-acting gay men are "cool, as long as they don't try anything"; or "I don't act gay." They're the acceptable minority, the one's it's okay to like: "One of my best friends is gay. Not gay gay though." Everyone else is still just "one of them."
Post edited by iuventus at 2016-07-23 14:45:25If I were dead, could I do this? -
I wasn't disagreeing actually with any of the points you were making Iuv, and I am fully aware that most of the labels originate from within the gay community itself. But then I have an issue with the term " gay community" itself in many ways. I've never been to a Pride rally, don't parody my own sexuality with any cliched dress or mannerisms and just live my life privately and kinda indifferently to what anyone else thinks about me, or me them. I take people as I find them. I have issues with excess make up however because to me it's a mask to cover up another person's insecurities and a barrier to finding out the true them, an argument some might say about the burka etc.
I kind of see tattoos in a similar way. It's like the tattooed person is desperately trying to communicate something, or if they are of lesser wit, just parodying that idea by trying to claim some originality of expression. I just like good old fashioned eye to eye contact and verbal or written communication.
To get back to your original point, I'm not a fan of labels, end of. I'm a humanist.
As long as that's not a label. -
And I've overused the word parody. Sorry.
And would I forgive Alison anything just because I like her?
Well I've never met her! I love her music and I love the image she presents as a private, intellectually minded creative type. But I'm not sycophantic and how do I know what's she's really like, or her me for that matter!!
I'm a realist through and through, and a Taurean ( like her). Oops I've just given myself 2 more labels! Time to go.... -
KatRobin said:
And I've overused the word parody. Sorry.
And would I forgive Alison anything just because I like her?
Well I've never met her! I love her music and I love the image she presents as a private, intellectually minded creative type. But I'm not sycophantic and how do I know what's she's really like, or her me for that matter!
You gave Alison a pass because she's Alison. I refuse to believe that you didn't know exactly what I meant. You're starting to argue (in the classical sense) like an American politician. Please, label me as you must; parody me! Just make America great again!
And I love parody. Much of my personality was spawned by parody (one on one you probably wouldn't recognize me though). Even the word parody is fun, as it brings to mind the foreboding choral ode of a Greek tragedy. Parody, parody, parody!
Nor did I assume that we were not in accord. You took a whole new direction and I didn't want my ever-so-important point to go unnoticed, unacknowledged, un-praised even. In fact, you might be surprised at how much we have in common.
Post edited by iuventus at 2016-07-23 18:15:05If I were dead, could I do this? -
What was the point, again?The Sentient Struggle For Transformation
https://www.amazon.com/Sentient-Struggle-Transformation-Whickwithy/dp/1734822147/ -
I'm glad I asked the question ;;)
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KatRobin said:
He hee. Be warned, if we do meet up Hells, you'll find me incredibly irritating and opinionated and you'll probably flick your peanuts at me after five mins. At least I'm honest
Are you Sagittarian?The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ.
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit.
Shall lure it back to cancal half a line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it. -
KatRobin said:
He hee. Be warned, if we do meet up Hells, you'll find me incredibly irritating and opinionated and you'll probably flick your peanuts at me after five mins. At least I'm honest
Lol. I tolerate opiniated people as I wonder sometimes if I'm like that myself. If I looked at myself from the outside and heard some of the things I say I think I would beat myself up tbh :-??
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